Why stoicism is toxic reddit. But we go much deeper than that.

Why stoicism is toxic reddit Again, I feel like your interpretation of Stoicism is maybe being crossed with the term ‘stoic’. It neutered the Roman ideas of virtue, courage, justice, and wisdom and replaced it w a weak version of each word where virtue was being not proud and base as supposed to the Roman virtue of being proud and high status; Roman courage was being a man of action while Christian courage is being part of the meek who shall inherit the earth I was reading my journal and found out that I am insecure and i act really toxic when I am insecure and I don't accept my flaws and just behave toxic to avoid the situation. But, it takes time. Toxic stoicism is the idea that you must be emotional detached and absent from your life and the lives of others, which often leads to behaving illogically for the sake of your base prejudices. Try to read stoic texts and reflect on them in a journal. And so the stoic steels the mind, prepares the emotion to be controlled rationally. In addition to that you can use your journal to reflect on your day and your feelings throughout the day. Over on the relationship & dating subs, "toxic" is one of the most over-used and under-specified words going. However, I do agree with your bigger point that the Stoic goal would be to be able to manage being in the company of toxic people without getting overwhelmed. A lot of them don't have any self reflection and pass on their trauma unto others. We are still lying, dying, loving, desiring, stealing, crying. no matter how much they try to get under your skin, remember that you're in charge of your thoughts and emotions. And with my friend we used to go out after work and eat a lot. But if your idea of Stoicism is just what you’ve found on the Internet, it might be worth looking a little deeper to be sure you’ve explored the idea fully before discarding it. Stoicism does not create cold men who do not know how to feel, nor does it create men who are controlled by their whims and passions. “Stoicism has never worked and is useless as a philosophy. Stoicism is the antidote to toxic masculinity because often its toxic emotions combined with the masculine strength that can lead to aggression. My girlfriend has noticed a change and I no longer argue when it seems she is baiting me for a fight. I’ve developed fears of infidelity after being in several toxic relationships. 3 The difference is processing emotions in a healthy way vs skipping the process of dealing with emotions at all. I know that Stoicism isn’t a religion (a religion has set of unquestionable beliefs) , but a broader and much more open minded philosophy (as Seneca said ‘Zeno is our dearest Stop talking your 'stoic' talk at her. Stoicism doesn't mean act powerless and label everything out of your control and let people treat you like shit. Stock your Stoic refrigerator with a natural discipline of feeding your mind a few snacks at a time, and then do a deep dive when you're not exhausting yourself with a passion for it. These toxic masculinity posts seem to have an underlying message that if men communicated like women everything would be better. If it is with people who you know will be like that, simply don't go. In fact, many toxic people who had crawled up into my life as I remained passive over all those years cut off their ties with me once I began standing up to them. It's from Christianity. Human behavior hasn’t changed much over the last 2,000 years. She will NEVER change. If you can help them, do it within the tenets of Stoicism. Edit: Also, how can getting closer to being stoic be “overly punitive”. you are just clinging to the popular definition of stoicism with a lowercase S. Stoicism as a philosophy is not at all toxic positivity. " Sometimes it can help to take a compassionate look into understanding why they act how they act. Hm, idk. Sounds to me like you've been suffocating her with 'stoic' advice. I don't know where Marcus had said he intentionally invited toxic people into his life. I was in a toxic workplace. Toxic masculinity, toxic femininity that hurts both men and women. Correct me if I'm wrong because I'm fairly new to stoicism, but I think this is pretty stoic itself. I’ve tried applying stoicism to the matter but… Stoicism is a philosophy that will challenge you to carefully and logically analyze your impressions and adopt a whole new paradigm, one in which "toxic" and "people" do not fit together. We all find our own path, in the end. It's not unusual to read a user saying, "I've just left a toxic relationship", without giving any idea as to what 'toxic' means. Stoic the adjective typically is synonymous with ‘indifference’. Don't waste your life on letting people get on your nerves. From stoicism, all perspective must be oriented to the purpose you are looking for and avoid that the opinion of others deviates us from our purpose. If you say you feel inept, then you should analyze why you feel that way. I’d say stoicism is still a good tool but you gotta approach it from an ADHD point of view, not a neurotypical point of This is a good example of stoicism advocating against the idea of violence and rage being somehow linked to masculinity, but toxic masculinity also involves the pressure on men to not express emotions (especially if their expression involves tears) to avoid looking weak, so I can see how a phrase like “as grief is a mark of weakness Just avoid these situations. A thought experiment like Zeno’s Republic would do away with court houses because we wouldn’t need them if everyone is Stoic to the point that injustice disappears. I agree with your second sentence). But you're taking a look at this from a support perspective, not a Stoic perspective. Let her find her own way. 82 votes, 53 comments. All stoic authors had it’s flaws. Also, toxic people just hurts themselves; they can only try to hurt us. Maybe you reading and internalizing Stoicism can help, but not a simple quote or This is the toxic crap that Stoic ideals get stuck with and it is the faulty logic and written word that encourages this. If you mean stoicism as "dont show your feelings, you have to be always calm", then no. The more you dig into stoicism, the more stoics seem to be against false judgements. Help her to do that by listening not by talking. I don't think there's enough emphasis on the cultivation of healthy emotions in modern self-help books on Stoicism. I finally realized I am a college graduate with a business, and she was pregnant in high school then unemployed for 16 years before she got hired as a manager at a retail store. A lot of people who don’t actually study the philosophy if Stoicism, equate it with the adjective which has little to nothing to do with the philosophy. Probably because less informed people confuse stoicism with completely shutting of your emotions, which is generally considered as "toxic masculinity" Stoicism isn’t for everyone and if it isn’t for you then go your way in peace and find something that is. Stoicism sees good and bad in our own actions, not others. in this context, you can't directly control how these people act towards you, but you can control your reactions to them. I can't even discuss this mindset with those people - my dad thinks the concept of stoicism is laughable, which I can only assume is his defense against having to admit he's wrong. Stoicism is often associated with 'toxic masculinity' because people do not understand what stoicism is. as long as you’re trying to learn directly from the readings and not through This does place emphasis on the Daily Stoic's own expression of Stoicism in the form a brand identity, and that is worth critiquing. Tough love is "Im here for you, but this path you are following risks damaging myself and others around me. And stoicism has many such dubious concepts from a modern point of view. Personally I tend to think of this side of stoicism as a bit outdated and thus less relevant but yeah, let it be said. The worst situation is always expected = this prepares the stoic to face or navigate life. e. It influences me almost daily and I can’t find a stoic approach. Toxic masculinity is a label created by mean feminists (these comments suggest that Stoicism is at least extremely appealing to men who embody toxic masculinity). So much has happened in the past. often reason counsels patience while anger counsels revenge, and we, who might have survived our first misfortunes, are exposed to worse ones. However some people vilify these traditionally masculine traits favouring more feminine men. The latter has many many variations like Tibetan Buddhism, Japanese and many like that. 595K subscribers in the Stoicism community. 99% of that content you talk to is not about stoicism, they are just coopting that word (which refers to pretty neat real philosophy) to refer to basic-bitch-toxic-masculinity to make it sound like a more reasonable thing than it is. Her toxicity is her problem not yours. This is why we study our history, hopefully: to learn from our past mistakes and improve. It provides direction so that you are not controlled by your emotions - a philosophy of managi Grey rock, but know and be able to prove your value for yourself. Why is you temporarily finding yourself in a toxic house so out of the question? Given that this has indeed happened, it can’t be out of alignment with nature, which means you’ve got to either to move out or find more realistic and beneficial beliefs about it. I'm not telling you what to do here. The reason I’m saying stoicism is stupid is because it does promote emotional suppression, basically it indoctrinates you into having no emotions whatsoever, no empathy, no compassion, nothing. The simple beauty of stoicism is that the power you need to change your life is already within you. Use interactions with your mother as a test for yourself: Epictetus (Discourses 2. As far as the beating yourself up over mistakes — I often do that, especially over little stupid things like that awkward thing I said 15 years ago or something. What I mean is when I think of stoicism i think of ignoring your emotions and not making a big deal about your mental state, with the idea that the less you give in to your emotions and the less you care about your feelings, the less control they have over you. I've encountered it with family, friends, teachers, co- workers. In my experience staying true to the 'new Stoic you' will discourage toxic people from exhibiting toxic behavior toward you, or they'll walk away when they see you are no longer letting their BS get to you. 12 votes, 26 comments. You have to separate. Too much ego is toxic = you are not a special The typical argument of toxic masculinity is that men repress their emotions and it causes them harm. It often clashes against pragmatism. I think most his views are toxic and outdated, the whole work harder, no over training, is not true. The Stoic philosophy doesn’t teach indifference, it teaches being knowledgeable of your emotions but not suppression of In essence i guess it is, it would be cruel to expect from someone to just automatically turn off their emotions and say that phrase when they don't even understand why it is the way it is. (With the punctuation, yes) a week ago and I really enjoy it! I’m struggling a bit with my mental and emotional health after leaving a toxic relationship, and I use this journal to keep myself accountable to check in with myself, to explore myself and process, grieve and heal. It also negates the entire reason why Stoicism is such a challenge: because when you are faced with a challenge that affects you emotionally, the hardest thing is to be stoic, and the easiest thing is to seek support that reinforces your emotional reaction. I went no contact with my own mother for being toxic like this. The stoic call to abide by nature or logos is not remotely synonymous with the idea of abandoning the constraints of civilization - or “modern constructs” -and celebrating a return to prehistoric “nature. I agree that a woman acting that way is the same as a man - jerk like. in this particular context (stoic subreddit) this is meaningless ; we are not supposed to mind what other people think Do you really think that we should not disagree with others here? If Zeno hadn't disagreed with earlier Greek philosophers, Stoicism wouldn't exist. Plus, aspects of stoicism can be found in a wide range of religious, self-help, and organizational writings. stoicism might have some guidance here. We can overlook “like a woman” being used as a negative in order to benefit from the meat of the philosophy. I would be interested if you could eventually prove me wrong. What is the stoic approach to a toxic boss? Seeking Stoic Advice My boss has a pattern, if you fail her one time, regardless of how great you’ve done your job so far, she will lose all confidence in you and being her abusive behavior. I've only seen one half of a snippet on the stoic ideas on beauty (that is all that survives) and nothing about the extant explanation is particularly beautiful. This goes double triple if your mom is phillipino. I don’t think Stoicism’s test of efficacy requires a society with 100% healthy individuals. You can also find information about frequently discussed topics, like flaws in Stoicism, Stoicism and politics, sex and relationships, and virtue as the only good, for a few examples. We are to act virtuously always, regardless of situation, it's not a transactional or conditional Stoicism offers a systematic way to explore why you are bothered, identify errors in reasoning, and ultimately how to correct those errors. We should treat everyone like our brothers "because we are like hands and feet" and made to work together. If you'd bothered to research it a little more, instead of coming here with an r/Stoicism is the fucking worst we all know it, but then you get people who now believe r/Stoicism actually reflects stoicism. Only in a toxic environment can you shine. If reading the ancient words of the great stoics isn't cutting it, try a more direct approach. Toxic. (not very stoic of her - I know). Thus making modern stoicism incredibly soulless and artless. I think, to be clear, that it's a mistake to translate eudaimonia as "happiness". Meditation can help you relax and clear your mind as well. It doesn't say anywhere that being stoic is bad, for example, but if you're being stoic because you believe it's "the way guys are supposed to be" then you might be allowing the trait to become toxic unintentionally. One of the hardest things about being a stoic is not preaching to others (how could you not after realizing how positively impactful it can be) and explaining to others why you are always calm. If you mean that as "things happen and you should only focus in what you can change", thats more like Zen (and Zen has a lot to do with minimalism, but isnt necessarily minimalism) 41 votes, 13 comments. People here like to say this sort of thing is out of your control and to just ignore it, but I do not agree with that. I really let the toxic behaviour Stoicism is a mindset for productive effective living, it's not an answer to every and all matters of human interaction. Stoicism is a philosophy that's been around for close to 2000 years. If you're chilling on a beach with your best buds, it doesn't mean much to say that you're a calm and patient person. Unfortunately I must stay away from a fellow coworker as they have a tendency to bring negative energy. But it's also about time and place and I have been told that my stoicism is "toxic. However, why should we sit in the same place and take sh*t from these toxic people and accept it is their nature. Even with the most toxic individuals. Undoubtedly. It sounds great in theory but never works because it makes you apathetic and passionless and justifies toxic masculinity and global suffering. " Can you explain what you understand a virtuous character to mean, and how you understand one cultivates it? Feb 6, 2023 · Stoicism is having a cultural moment, with bestselling books and podcasts taking this ancient philosophy to a new audience. Let's foster a community that develops virtue together—stay relevant to The most fruitful thing for me has come when looking into why I judge others or their behavior (especially words) as toxic. However, this is easier said than done. Resources, links and relevant news dealing with Stoicism as it is currently practiced. The English word "happy" used to mean fortunate or blessed but its meaning became Tenet #1 of stoicism: it’s not the thing you can change (or control), it’s the thought about thing that you can change (or control). We don't want to communicate like women just like we don't want you to communicate like men. It has to be processed, not overlooked. Awareness is key. The first one is a distortion of Stoicism that is employed to achieve wealth and fame; the second one is a different kind of distortion, which makes Stoicism into a precursor of and philosophical foundation for “men’s rights” nonsense; while the last one is a potentially even more dangerous distortion that turns Stoicism into a tool for Providing context and effortful elaboration as to a topic’s relevance to the philosophy of Stoicism gives the community a common frame of reference from which to engage in productive discussions. Thats toxic masculinity. There's nothing Reddit can do to save you from the consequences of your choice - if you refuse to date toxic people you don't have toxic partners, if you permit yourself to date them you do. In my experience it has been more efficient to reflect on and correct these errors without the distraction of also trying to mind my manners with people with whom I am primed to bicker and argue. ” Or Romanticizing pre-civilized societies. Stoicism is meant to be a philosophy of virtue ethics. Stoicism is a nice way to deal with something bigger than you, something existential, something that can’t respond—life, death, war, disease, or the universe. Before I got deeper into stoicism I was reading a ton of books on narcissism and toxic relationships in general. Stoic? Toxic. I would not say that stoicism is toxic masculinity. So, you're not understanding men, stoicism and psychology here. Using stoicism to review and observe your emotions from 10000 foot elevation gives you a layer of separation so the negative emotions don't effect you physically before you've had time time to decide Expect her to be toxic and you will never be disappointed. I personally am only subscribed to 4 subreddits. It doesn't cease to be toxic if someone doesn't recognise it as such. The Stoics, in particular, mean something more like "flourishing". A lot of what Ryan Holiday writes is better suited towards the alpha-type neurotypical brain, at least that’s my opinion. The thing is, that takes considerable practice, which is very difficult to do in the environment of the Mar 17, 2020 · Therefore, I slammed my mind countless times with Stoicism. In both instances, be kind. It is a young male dominated platform, and the difficulties of young men follow wherever they congregate. If we never said that toxic was normal, we could have made laws saying if you are toxic on internet and bullying people, your internet provider will send you fine for 1000$ and nobody will ever be toxic, but instead they allow it to happen. Remove the All button on on reddit using RES and unsub from subreddits that are toxic. Stoicism has helped me a lot in life, but this is the first situation where I genuinely feel clueless. The problem with them is that they all flood me with what I consider to be toxic positivity. 18. No amount of practical stoicism “cured” my ADHD traits so I just got burned out and frustrated. For those of you who don’t know, stoicism is a a school of philosophy that teaches self-control, resilience and temperance. There is nothing toxic about stoicism or masculinity. It only becomes toxic when you refuse to be introspective and consider how these actions might hurt yourself or others. There's "taking shit" from people and then there's acting like an adult. These things I pointed out are from the proponents of this. Emotions are usually a result of judgments or beliefs about the world, and the goal of the Stoic would be to reevaluate their beliefs and therefore prevent the negative emotions from ever being felt. There is the wrong role models on social media and society that promote toxic behaviours like superficial love, superficial sex, high competitiveness, and the machismo for man and now the extreme egoistic freedom for everybody. To avoid false judgements or impressions, you must purge your attachment on those judgements. Emotions are a knee-jerk response to a situation. There is no golden saying that will make you tolerate these people. If you aren't ready for the 10 course meal, don't rush yourself. If you do steroids yes you can work out all day, but the average man, over-training is bad for your physical and mental health. It’s going up to a depressed person and saying “you’ll beat this, you just have to think happy thoughts!!” Or something similar to that. Remember that Marcus wasn't always happy to live at court with toxic people plotting against him. Frankly Stoicism has the same answer if the other party is toxic or not, treat them virtuously (i. This is one is a little harder since most Reddit content can be accessed without an account so this is where a person's determination comes into place. the perception of stoicism portrayed in places like tiktok or twitter are not accurate at all and just a cesspool of misogynistic people. In fact, scholars do say that Marcus' Stoicism is that of Epictetus. But we go much deeper than that. I’m struck by the fact that you decided all your friends were toxic and jettisoned them from your life, and you have now also decided you are toxic but you can’t jettison yourself so you’re just miserable. Confrontation is rarely necessary. Do journaling. The surviving stoic theory/text is generally lacking in any conception of inspiration, from the gods, daemons or elsewhere. I will always be there if my toxic friends ask for help, but until then it is my choice to allow them in my life. Mindfulness isn’t necessarily a stoic concept but it can be very helpful in bringing your attention to the present moment. Anyone can grasp the main principles of stoicism, so it’s approachable, while living according to the principles is really hard and takes practise. This is Reddit. Release your mental pressure to the pen and paper. There’s nothing in real Stoicism that excludes women, aside from the same casual misogyny that is seen in pretty much all ancient works. tl;dr: high school rival turned very toxic after I stopped trying to score perfect scores and thinks they are better than me in every way possible. Introduce a Star Trek like utopia. You absolutely can fully ignore family gatherings etc. Furthermore, the items listed under stoicism in the 'article' such as self reliance, independence and physical toughness are all VERY positive traits (notice they didn't say emotionless, insensitive or any other terms attached to the misapplied stoicism term). They can, if we let them. I found out that a fellow co-worker of mines that I had nothing but the upmost respect for and saw as a decent man was shaming me and saying really mean things about me behind my back to other co-workers. . He's a bit of a hard atheist and gets really offended by the ancient Stoic use of words like god, divine, providence and so on (even though in the Stoic context they mean something completely different to the Judaeo-Christian equivalents, but he can't seem to get his head away from the latter), so he has thrown out all of Stoic physics/theology Just to preface, I'm aware that "why Stoicism" is a FAQ, but I believe this is a sufficiently different and far more interesting question. So from a Stoic perspective, we understand this stems from ignorance on our parent's part. As a Buddhist might say, your enlightenment is as close to you as turning around and finding it. The only answer I find is hedonism, but in my opinion that really doesn't fit to the modern way a stoic personality is perceived. 1 Problem Solved, 3 New As to why the modern left doesn't value stoicism, I think it's just a natural consequence of the idea that it's just and sanctifying for minorities or historically oppressed groups to have these very public outbursts of rage or grief and that it's white supremacy or whatever to value self-control and discipline. I would argue that being stoic is neither toxic, nor is it particularly… Oct 15, 2024 · Long story short 2023 was a really bad year for me, I was learning about stoicism but got away from the path at some point and let my negative You say, "Stoicism urges us to ask ourselves every day for our final goal: a virtuous character. Stoicism in general can help because it teaches self-analysis, patience, perspective, and humility -- all of which can lead you beyond the state of being toxic. Personally, I've always admired stoic men and women. actual stoicism is beautiful, but if the only knowledge of it is from what you see online then yeah, it makes sense. I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Where that line is drawn depends on the person and the circumstances. By all means walk the 'stoic' walk in your own life but let her be. I downloaded the journaling app Stoic. We are a community committed to learning about and applying philosophical Stoic… One thing you want to discount is "this isn't the real me". Whether he did or not, there is certainly no division between Marcus Aurelius's Stoicism and Epictetus' Stoicism. Stoicism and Hedonism are diametrically opposed philosophies. I have realised my mistakes and I have seen why I am like this and what makes me repeat them but I can't stop repeating them. Posted by u/One-Jackfruit-3904 - 15 votes and 6 comments The only reason a stoic would remain subjugated would be if they believed the circumstances of their subjugation were outside of their control, but I think it's obvious that there are many ways to improve one's life and a generally unjust world that are inside of their control, and that's why stoicism is so appealing to many. true. Stoic approach to removing toxic people from your life? So I have found peace with my situation and learned to stay away from things which are no good for me. Think the four virtues of stoicism. I stopped going to those years ago. ' Toxic masculinity, which is basically the toxic traits falsely promoted by society until recently as "masculine, is indeed bad in general. Look at the passage above by Epictetus and then imagine that I had the urge to not participate in life, it literally tells me not to worry about impressing people, not to work on my body or health, not to care about my We have control over how we approach things, rather than imagining a perfect world – a utopia – the Stoic practices realism and deals with the world as it is - no strings attached, while pursuing one’s personal development through the four fundamental virtues: It’s the same reason why Stoicism is still applicable today. when it comes to The current “broicist” take on Stoicism is very male-centred, but it’s not actual Stoicism. 18 votes, 19 comments. Why boomers glorify stoicism and yet suck at regulating their own emotions Boomer Story My boomer father-in-law loves to talk about how my boomer mother-in-law “never complains” so even when she is hurt or sick, she will always just endure and carry on, leading to her developing several health issues such as stress-induced IBS and kidney But today, such advice is just toxic. But even if I'm not in control of others, I have power over my own attitude, and I don't want to give up to my fears anymore. I sincerely care about his well-being, and I believe that his social "obtuse-ness" is unintentional so I can't justify anger towards him but, at the same time, I don't want to exist in a toxic environment. This is my mistake there. These questions about a toxic boss, friend, coworker, parent, spouse, sibling posts get brought up a lot. The goal of this article is to share my experience and help you with the adoption of this powerful philosophy. How do I apply stoicism in a situation I can't really opt out of, unlike a detrimental friendship? I'm in my junior year of high school and I find that a number of my classes are legitimate wastes of time, and often stressful, but not because of the actual subjects being "taught". Also a stoic advice could be to remember at any time you might die. 12): If then you wish not to be of an angry temper, do not feed the habit: throw nothing on it which will increase it: at first keep quiet, and count the days on which you have not been angry. From a Stoic perspective we can understand the connection between belief and emotion [Stoic Psychology 101: Impressions, Assent, and Impulses], but not all emotions are based on logically justified reasoning. I use to be stoic, having less negative perceptions on things, but got involved with some bad teammates for some heavy coursework for uni, became very negative and toxic, honestly just need help to get over this negative emotions and to practice stoicism again This is why stoicism is found so deeply in many recovery-based programs and literature. At this situation you either write off your losses, completely debilitate the oppossition, and failing that - you would have a war in your hands. Its not viewed that way though. With what value they put on time and committing themselves to a life of better understanding oneself, what in Stoic philosophy would drive them to end their own lives? I was introduced to Stoicism through a previous partner who was incredibly in tune with her emotions (particularly through journaling and consistent self-reflection), and well-versed in other aspects such as psychology/philosophy - all of which I think ultimately played an important role in her being non-toxic, and a good partner. I suspect you won't. An example is when the belief is based on erroneous reasoning such as about what it means for a thing to be good or bad, what it means to I think one major factor is that stoicism is a practical philosophy that is, like many popular things, easy to learn but hard to master. Know that you are not alone in having toxic parents and wrestling with 'what could have been. Also the cold hard truth. Not all of the blame for the hustle culture lies there, but if as much time was spent there on Stoic ethics and virtue as on the dichotomy of control, or on the 'value of the obstacle' then perhaps the reflection This is why "how" you cut someone out of your life is almost as important as "why". Toxic people let bad people/situations in the past/present make them exactly like themselves. Not at all 😊 For a branch of Philosophy that aims for one self to really think, question, and discover everything that suites curious minds like yours and everyone interested in Stoicism, it makes perfect sense tbh 👽🌌 Happy Stoic Learnings 📜 Judging to determine if a person is "toxic" is important for one's emotional and mental (and we now know physical) well being and therefor beneficial, while judging to determine if they're likely to help you clime the top of one particular social ladder at the cost of throwing away other, more profoundly important relationships is detrimental. The use of the term nature in stoicism has nearly the opposite meaning. It's actually the most spiritual and most practical philosophy I've ever found, without necessarily calling itself spiritual. This is part of the plan my friend. Please keep advice, comments, and posts relevant to Stoic philosophy. Part of being stoic is becoming more rational about how we perceive facts. Maybe list the reasons why you like them and why you're together, and when your mind wanders off to old patterns of thinking, either remain in the moment, mindfullness-style, or remind remind yourself of them. Sometimes by honest mistake but often because increasing popularity of the philosophy is a threat to some world views. As an aside, should you feel inclined, a short-cut to self-perception of our flaws and a catalyst for change can be found in psychedelics. This is generally my biggest problem with stoicism. First, Stoicism is often misrepresented for being something it is not. It is being able to see things rationally. 146 votes, 53 comments. I would argue it’s the exact opposite and helped me let go of a lot of the toxic beliefs I was taught growing up on a farm in a blue collar household. I am surprised about why Stoicism isn’t as popular as Buddhism (or Zen). Stoicism is a perspective through which we try to see things from a better frame of mind rather than being totally consumed by our emotions. You can only ever be the real you - if the "real you" right now includes having chosen to behave dishonourably in order to achieve a goal, that's "you" - the "real you" is a person split a choice, and who is seeking to choose something better. It takes time, there's no quick fix, but with study and volition you can get to a place where you no longer see your coworkers as delusional and toxic, but With that being said, it does mean that some men try to incorporate stoicism into Stoicism, with toxic results (i. I have some familiarity with various Ancient Greek philosophies, including Cynicism, Pyrrhonian Skepticism, Epicureanism and of course, Stoicism. Emotions and inexperience are a part of the journey, and you can't gain experience with stoic quotes. Apply this to other scenarios, alcoholics who are so toxic that being involved with them risks damaging you and your children. What should the Stoicism subreddit contain then? Why are you here? The simple truth is that by choosing to date a toxic person, you've caused yourself to have a toxic partner. If you ultimately find you want no future contact with them, do the humane thing and let them know why, using the tenets of Stoicism. I expect them to let me down always, and hope they soon take the responsibility upon themselves to better their lives’, knowing until they do there is nothing I can do for them and that their problems are not my problems. To add some Stoicism to it, and the book touches upon this slightly, most of the time, it was our parent's childhood which was the root cause of their parenting style with us. If you find that you really struggle to have a healthy relationship with other peoples' opinions of you, I made a lot of headway by looking at resources specifically addressing toxic shame and de-conditioning the common stress responses people develop from having a traumatic childhood. I know I can't control him, but I'm having trouble making a decision here: It kind of makes me think of the Facebook problem - Facebook cannot possibly effectively and sustainably monitor hatespeech, non fact-checked sources spreading misinformation and explicit content, because almost 60% of the world's internet users have Facebook, apparently, and Facebook can't even hire a quarter of that many people to act as moderators. I love stoicism in theory, but it’s praxis is quite a challenge for me at times — but that fact is precisely WHY I value it so much. Cutting toxic, annoying or distracting people from your life is both healthy and aligns well with stoicism as choosing who to spend your limited time on this earth is one of the few things under your control, further, being brave/virtuous doesn’t always mean risking your life but having the courage to cut people out of your life and dealing A stoic would not ask "how to change my mom?" A stoic would simply change themselves. Toxic masculinity is about power and controlling situations. However, when leaders misinterpret Stoic principles, they may create a toxic work environment. She may bring her toxicity to you but you don’t have to absorb it. So this is nothing new and it's out there and for good reason. Example being the false stoicism I already explained, which tells boys to hide their emotions and never express their feelings or let alone cry because that'd be seen as week and effeminate. Living/working with toxic family members is not very conducive to this goal. The stoic recognizes the fact that there are a lot of awful human beings ready to exploit the world to their advantage. Now, all of my friends are sorry because I couldn't land a better job, and I'm grateful for a little compassion in these hard times of course. stoics promote the idea of focusing on what we can control and learning to accept what we cannot. You could argue that this is just a theory and must not need be the case. One final point: one criticism on stoicism is that they (wrongly?) assume that pursuing virtue will lead to eudaimonia for all human beings. ‘Toxic positivity’ is a thing and it’s especially important when dealing with someone you love who has a mental illness. Men don't communicate like women, we communicate like men. This is why stoicism is often thought to be a toxic trait for men. Stoicism as a philosophy won’t necessarily make someone appear or come across as ‘cold’ or ‘emotionless’. In my reading on Stoicism, I have come across mentionings of stoics taking their own lives and I haven't truly been able to understand why. Let her make discoveries for herself. 24K subscribers in the Stoic community. But after you're done crying, you need to examine the events that caused you to feel this way in the first place through a Stoic lens. But I would say toxic masculinity demands stoicism from men, which as a lay person seems unhealthy, unsustainable, and unreasonable to me. Self reliant and competent? Toxic. If someone asks why, be honest and tell them they create a toxic environment you don't need to be around. Sounds like that person didn’t know what ‘toxic positivity’ actually is. There are some "toxic" people out in the larger media world who identify as Stoic, and that causes their fan base to Google Stoicism or search Reddit directly. I’m talking about the potential fallacies in stoic logic. Expected norms for masculinity absolutely has room for emotion you only need to look at the retirement of Welsh Rugby legend Shane Williams and the raw emotion during the anthems and the post match interview by everyone - the farewell/ funeral haka for Lomu is also worth a look at if you think men can't be emotional (as an aside The OP saw the term attached to toxic masculinity and commented on it. The only reason you felt “betrayed” is because you claimed another human being as “off limits” after deciding you didn’t want to be their partner. depending on how youre intaking it, i see why shes worried. But there are problems with Stoicism, both in its modern and ancient Oct 28, 2024 · Stoicism is often lauded for its applicability in leadership and management. Stoicism is more about having a rational approach towards ones life and negating the absoluteness of one's expectations when it comes to what they want from life. I didn't provide you with a definition of toxic masculinity so I don't think what you said applies but here is my definition. Now is all polarized at the extremes. What harm am I worried about? "Sticks and stones can break my bones but words can never hurt me. " Yes there is definitely this belief that stoicism is also just another example of toxic male behavior. Stoicism and a toxic wife Hey Listen I have been practicing stoicism for the past 2 weeks and it has helped me immensely I listen to audiobooks every morning and or read every night as well. I think this a great sub but I do not agree with stoicism being a trait of toxic masculinity. I think just focusing on what you like about the other person helps, instead of on what you expect from them or from your relationship. This viewpoint just takes for granted the idea that 1) we are our initial emotions, and they must be expressed to be true to ourselves and 2) stoicism is a bad thing that harms men. Stoicism is the belief in logical reasoning, accepting what is in your control while letting go of what isn't, and pursuing a life of virtue. Also any “toxic masculinity” in today’s society is the result of stoic principles being less valued, things like temperance, respect, and logic. Why they are not into Epicureanism or any other -ism(s) is not easy and not really useful either. By the same token, people who are into Stoicism, are into Stoicism because for whatever reason(s) they want to be into Stoicism. Good luck that's a tough situation. Couple this with the accessibility of Stoicism as a philosophy and you can end up with some really warped perspectives from individuals who are eager to share their opinion. In my final week at this place, I've learned to see toxic personality traits from co-workers that I've ignored before in the past. Continuing in a toxic workplace is 100% your choice and you have influence over it. with kindness, honesty, reason, etc). ajih mhqusm lhapgow lfuhvks waky bqsyoi zkdgn vbqjj higre gmjhz